In response to Ryusuke Ogasawara, Pui Hin said she will try to get the 100baseTX going at the same time, but the first priority is to put the backbone in and to install equipment to support the 6 Mbps link funded by the UH HPC grant.
In response to Ryusuke Ogasawara's question on UH's plan to increase bandwidth between UHH and UHM, Pui Hin thought that the plan is to put in a DS3. Subsequently, Pui Hin clarified with UH and it is not clear yet whether it would be a DS3 or an OC3. Pui Hin also said UH has not committed MKOCN to the use of this link. Although if bandwidth is available, we might be able to use it; charges will have to be negotiated at that time. Henry Stilmack remarked that it would be useful at least as a backup.
In response to Dennis Crabtree, Pui Hin said the current plan is for the 6 Mbps to carry both the research and commercial traffic, the traffic will be separated at UH Manoa. Research traffic will be routed to the Mainland through the DREN and commercial traffic through the current GTE DS3. Pui Hin has discussed with UH the possibility of keeping the frame relay as a backup, but that has not been settled.
Towards this effort, Gemini met in Hilo with representatives from a number of the observatories as well as UHH. Subsequently, Bill Chen of UHH, Jim Kennedy of Gemini, David Lassner and Alan Whinery of UH, Bob McLaren and Pui Hin Rhoads of the IfA met to discuss the issues.
Pui Hin gave a summary of what she felt to be the important issues that were considered at the IfA and Hilo Meetings for further discussion. These issues are:
Frame relay has been considered, David Lassner has expressed concerns about supporting meritorious applications in his proposal over very high latency link. David is checking on this.
Other options are still being considered. David Lassner is checking with GTE on what they can provide.
In general, the group considered the increase of bandwidth to the Mainland to be a much higher priority than a separation of Internet traffic from the observatories' private links.
Ryusuke Ogasawara remarked that a possible real reason for using MHPCC is that they already have the equipment to support the link and that will save money for us. However, Pui Hin pointed out that this is now a non-issue, since the UH has obtained the equipment to support the MKO link through the NSF grant.
Pui Hin presented a viewgraph modified from one presented by Jim Kennedy at the Manoa meeting. This is one of the diagrams presented by Jim Wright at the Hilo meeting.
The high light of this topology is the move of the Internet access point from the summit to the Hilo University Park. This move necessitates the adding of a link between the summit and Hilo to provide Internet access to the Waimea base camps. The modifications Pui Hin made include elimination of elements that are no longer valid, elements that are uncertain, and the end point of the Hilo-MK DS3. Where Jim Wright's diagram showed the link between Hilo and HP, Pui Hin now draws it between Hilo and the summit ATM switch.
Pui Hin sees a disadvantage for the Waimea observatory in this topology in that it will be more expensive for these observatories to provide a separate link.
Dennis Crabtree suggested adding a separate Waimea-summit link as part of the Infrastructure.
Phil Puxley remarked that the link is in one of the options proposed at the Hilo meeting; there likely are others.
Dennis also raised the question of post grant support for the added link but agreed to defer the subject for discussion with other cost sharing issues.
It was suggested that shared costs be prorated among users according to their usage. Much of the costs, however are usage-independent: maintenance costs for routers at users' site, the central router is necessary whatever the usage, and support staff is required -- perhaps even more for the small organizations who have limited computing staff. If the router is in Hilo, the summit-Hilo link has to be acquired to provide Internet access for the Waimea base camps, so this link needs to be treated as infrastructure, i.e. a shared cost unless Gemini intends to continue paying for this link at the end of the grant. The costs of the Big Island to UHM link can be prorated, if we can figure out a way of measuring the traffic. This is complicated if there are multiple access points.
Phil Puxley remarked that Kennedy & Lassner have a tentative plan for ongoing support.
A general discussion emerged about the technical details that will best serve the community in terms of equity, efficiency, and cost effectiveness. Rather than trying to interpret the remarks, some of the comments follow:
This concluded the discussion. Following is a diagram of what this proposed network looks like:
Ryusuke Ogasawara asked how many DS3 are still available. I don't remember if I answered then, but for the record, three are currently used. There is an allocation policy agreed upon by all the MKO directors: One DS3 is allocated to each organization: CFHT, Gemini, IFA/IRTF, JAC, Keck, and SMA. One will be reserved for contingency. The remaining four unallocated DS3s may be sold to organizations which wish to buy a second DS3.
Pui Hin responded that there is no official policy, but it is obviously appropriate to limit large transfers that would saturate the link. This might not be a problem with the upcoming upgrade.
It was agreed not to implement a formal policy for now. Rather to monitor usage, and at the same time have observatories and users communities work together to make sure that observatories and users home institutions have compatible tape drives appropriate for large format cameras, for the transfer of data between the observatories and the user's home institution or to have observers schedule an extra day for tape writing.
Ryusuke Ogasawara said it will be possible to allocate bandwidth based on protocol with ATM. It works well and is inexpensive. We shouldn't be afraid of making use of the network.